Al-Hitar comments on dialogue held with al-Qaeda, Huthists
The Source: SANA'A/hadhramaout.info/sabanews.net - 23/11/2010
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Endowments Minister Hamud al-Hitar has said the terrorist operations began in Yemen when the security services prioritized the military solution.During an Interview with Qatar newspaper Al-Sharq, al-Hitar reviewed the details of his fiqh dialogue with al-Qaeda and the Huthists. Here is the full text of the dialogue:
[Al-Hitar] The size of Al-Qaeda in Yemen is not 10 per cent of what is pictured in the media outlets. The impromptu blows that it received led to some counterproductive results.
[Al-Sharq] Do you mean by these blows the US air strikes carried out against Al-Qaeda?
[Al-Hitar] There are efforts exerted by the [Yemeni] government in coordination with the United States. I cannot say that these blows were carried out by the United States. All what I know is that there is coordination between the Yemeni Government and that of the United States. This coordination is governed by some agreements that do not harm the Yemeni sovereignty. The results of the dialogue
[Al-Sharq] What are the details of the efforts that you exerted in order to contain Al-Qaeda ideology?
[Al-Hitar] The dialogue with a number of Al-Qaeda leaders and cadres yielded positive results, and led to the establishment of security and stability in Yemen from the end of 2002 until almost mid 2006.
Some officials begrudged the dialogue committee these results. Therefore, they started to call for reconsidering the Yemeni policy when it comes to fighting terrorism. This policy was based on four fronts.
The first front: The intellectual dialogue to eradicate the intellectual roots of extremism. This front is the basis.
The second front: The security measures that are cable of preventing crimes, pursuing their perpetrators, and referring them to justice to receive their just punishment, in case they were able to commit these crimes.
The third front: Solving the economic problems that might be some of the reasons behind exploiting a number of individuals to carry out terrorist operations.
The fourth front: Taking the necessary measures for a regional and international cooperation in fighting terrorism.
Some persons called for prioritizing the security measures and solutions over the intellectual solutions.
Thus, since the end of 2005, the security measures took first place, while the intellectual solutions became second.
We, at the dialogue committee, gave the chance for a dialogue in hope of some results. Unfortunately, these results were not encouraging.
Therefore, we call for prioritizing the dialogue again in terms of dealing with this issue, fighting terrorism, and overcoming the effects of the terrorist operations that happened in the latest years.
[Al-Sharq] The president [Ali Abdallah Salih] met with some detainees belonging to Al-Qaeda and had talks with them. He also released them in the hope that they return to the right path. To what extent was this experience successful?
[Al-Hitar] Since November 2009, the president interfered. We took the action to start the dialogue. The majority of individuals who were pardoned by the president on the 20th anniversary of Yemen's reunification were among the ones included in the dialogue. The peace option
[Al-Sharq] Until 2005, what did your committee achieve through its dialogue with Al-Qaeda?
[Al-Hitar] Through this dialogue, we were able to achieve many results. The most important internal ones were:
The first one was giving hope to the individuals included in the dialogue in the possibility of living in peace, if they were to renounce violence. Losing hope gives a person two options only: either to become a killer or get killed. The dialogue found a third option, which is to live in peace.
The second result was correcting the misconceptions that those people might have had about Islam. Islam, as is widely known, is the religion of freedom, justice, equality, tolerance, and coexistence. Those people had understood it differently.
The dialogue helped us to remove and correct their misconceptions. We believe for two reasons that these misconceptions and reckless actions harmed Islam and Muslims as much as the schemes and hostilities did.
One of the reasons is that they [the misconceptions and reckless actions] show Islam in a way different from that revealed by God, as a religion of freedom, justice, and equality.
The second reason is that they give reasons for others to target our religion and our ummah [the community of Muslims worldwide.]
The third internal result achieved was defusing the armed confrontations between the security services and those individuals by stopping the illegal pursuits and terrorist operations.
The fourth result was establishing security and stability in Yemen during the period between the end of 2002 and mid 2006 when the dialogue had the first place in the Yemeni policy. At that time, Yemen did not witness any terrorist incident at all. However, when the priorities of this policy were rearranged and the security services chose the confrontations, things evolved. The security measures
[Al-Sharq] Do you mean giving priority to the security measures?
[Al-Hitar] Yes, prioritizing the security measures. Unfortunately, this led to wider confrontations, which we hope that they decrease.
The fifth result achieved was the release of the largest possible number of individuals who were included in the dialogue and were not charged with criminal cases, since the persons who are charged with criminal cases are referred to justice.
The dialogue included approximately 420 persons among the ones who were detained by the security services. The percentage of success in changing the convictions and behaviours of those persons was 98 per cent. Those individuals were then released. Although the state's work mechanisms changed and some of those individuals were released more than five years ago, they did not return to their previous state.
[Al-Sharq] Does this mean that you succeeded in developing a deep conviction in them? What is the logic you followed to carry out a dialogue with them?
[Al-Hitar] In fact, the problem of Al-Qaeda is originally intellectual. These kinds of problems can only be solved through dialogue. It is impossible to solve them by using force, since the latter strengthens these ideologies.
Dialogue is the best way to change the convictions and behaviours to a better way. Therefore, we call upon the Arab governments to support dialogue at first to face this group [Al-Qaeda,] and use force against the outlawed individuals only, and deal with the root of the problem not with its manifestations, since the terrorist operations carried out by these individuals must be based upon an ideology, whether political, economic, social, or religious. The important thing is that it is an ideology that should only be faced with another ideology. The dialogue tactics
[Al-Sharq] When you say that you held talks with 420 persons, how did you reassure them before starting the dialogue with them?
[Al-Hitar] Those are the ones who were arrested. The ones, who were outside the prisons and we were able to change their convictions, were many more than this. In fact, we adopted two methods of dialogue:
The first one was the direct dialogue which used to be held with the individuals who were influenced by Al-Qaeda's ideologies.
The second method was indirect dialogue, which was conducted through media outlets, whether read, or audiovisual. Through these media outlets, we were able to discuss Al-Qaeda's ideologies and show their contradiction with the Koran and the Sunnah.
These are the most important benefits we achieved internally through dialogue. On the external level, this dialogue showed Yemen in a civilized way as the country of civilization and dialogue. In addition, Yemen offered to the world a more efficient and less costly means that is more effective than the military solutions in fighting terrorism and dealing with this phenomenon [Al-Qaeda.] We were able to tell the world that the pen and tongue can achieve what could not be achieved by using weapons. The takfir
[Al-Sharq] What are the thoughts that you stress upon when you have dialogue with them? What are the right foundations that you work on persuading them of?
[Al-Hitar] The Al-Qaeda ideology is based on two essential things:
The first one is the takfir [holding other Muslims to be infidels] of the Muslim governments.
The second thing is the bloodshed of non-Muslims. However, it is worth mentioning that the majority of Al-Qaeda operations' victims are Muslims.
[Al-Sharq] What is the size of Al-Qaeda in Yemen when it comes to the number of its elements?
[Al-Hitar] Until now, its size, as well as its influence, is still limited and we can still contain it. However, the dialogue should be prioritized and force should only be used with outlawed individuals.
I think that Yemen will witness security and stability if it followed this policy. On the other hand, if we compare the size and number of victims of the terrorist operations carried out inside Yemen with the size of the operations carried out in many other Western countries, we find that the number of victims of these operations inside Yemen has not exceeded 50 persons so far.
However, some sides are seeking to harm Yemen's unity, sovereignty, security, and stability. The Yemenis will stand united in the face of these sides that are trying to harm their unity, security, sovereignty, and stability.
[Al-Sharq] Nearly two years ago, Al-Qaeda branches in Saudi Arabia and Yemen were merged under one leadership. How does this affect the security in Yemen?
[Al-Hitar] This is what is mentioned in the media outlets but in reality, we all know the nature of Al-Qaeda. It does not have a unified leadership in any country. The information on the presence of Al-Qaeda in the Arabian Peninsula [AQAP] is baseless. The experience with the Huthists
[Al-Sharq] As for the Huthists, how did you carry out dialogue with them?
[Al-Hitar] The dialogue included detained and free leaders. We were engaged in many experiences with them during the past six years starting in 2004. At first, we achieved success in this dialogue; however, there was a setback for some reasons beyond the dialogue's course, including the war circumstances and the expansion of the dialogue committee, which might have included individuals who are not convinced with carrying out the dialogue.
During the latest period, we resumed dialogue with those leaders in a different way. We started implementing human development programmes, and then we went back to the dialogue. We were able to achieve positive results through both stages. The first stage, which we established with the security services, was about filling the gaps related to human development. Therefore, we drew their attention away from the public concerns to their personal concerns and to the way in which an individual can be peaceful, righteous, successful, and useful for himself and his community. By using reason, we were able to achieve results more positive than the ones we achieved before.
[Al-Sharq] What are the fiqh [Islamic jurisprudence] foundations on which the Huthists rely in their rebellion against the state?
[Al-Hitar] The rebellion is driven by their beliefs that God granted them the right to rule and this principle has historical roots.
You know that this claim existed before Islam. The Koranic text is clear as to ordering [the Prophet] to read despite the fact that Muhammad was the most entitled to this claim even without having to learn it.
The Huthists believe that God has chosen people among them to grant them his knowledge without having to teach them. Those people are specialized in reading and interpreting the Koran and all what the others have to do is learn their teachings. They also believe that God had chosen people among them to rule, and that appointing a ruler is God's not man's right. Coordination
[Al-Sharq] Is there any coordination between the Huthists, Al-Qaeda and the Southern Mobility Movement?
[Al-Hitar] The only common thing among them is their enmity towards the regimes.
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